I wrote in a previous blog that The Wesleyan Church is wrong on the issue of alcohol. Specifically, it is wrong to expect total abstinence from alcohol for covenant members. Here are five good reasons why I believe T.W.C. is wrong on this issue…
1. It’s not biblical.
The Bible clearly teaches that drinking in moderation is not a sin, but drunkeness is. If Jesus does not require abstinence from alcohol for membership in the body of Christ, how can we require it for membership in the church?
2. It breeds hypocrisy.
Yes, alcohol can be very damaging to the body, but so can buffet tables. How many Christians suffer from heart disease because of bad diets and lack of exercise? How many teeth are rotting out of people’s mouths because of too much sweet tea at church dinners?
3. It fosters an attitude of judgmentalism.
If we see someone either purchasing alcohol or drinking alcohol, what do we immediately think? “They need Jesus.” If anyone has anything to do with alcohol, we immediately think they are on thier way to hell. Nevermind the fact that Jesus and his disciples drank wine. (As did all the church fathers including Martin Luther (also beer) and John Wesley himself).
4. It destroys authenticity.
Let’s be honest Wesleyan pastors, how many of your Covenant members actually do drink alcohol? If you don’t think any of them do, you probably also believe that every one of your members tithe, and none of them cheat on their taxes. However, I don’t really blame those who drink and accept covenant membership because…
5. It creates a social tier system within God’s family.
We have two kinds of members in the Wesleyan Church: Covenant Members and lepers, er… I mean Community Members. You see, community members aren’t “real” members, are they? “We are all one in Christ Jesus…”, but we are not all one in the Wesleyan Church.
14 comments
Comments feed for this article
August 12, 2008 at 12:03 am
Sheila Joyce Gibbs
Just reviewed your article on ALCOHOL! Obviously YOU HAVE DONE SOME WORK on this ! VERY GOOD !
Now, you won’t like what I have to say, & I’m sorry, but…….Alcohol is a LEGAL drug, okay?
It was my favourite way of dealing with day to day stress, anxiety & everything from soup to nuts, so to speak ! My late husband & I, were extremely healthy, fit, well educated, never a sick day off work, NEVER IN THE HOSPITAL, we NEVER were drunk, or participated in these ridiculous ‘binge’s’ (?). But, like everyone, it appears, we had absolutely NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE HORRIFIC ability that ALL Liquor contains. That being, basically, at IT’S OWN DISCRETION, to dish out ‘Willy Nilly’ any freaking illness it jolly well feels like!!! To boil it down to layman’s terms: You give Satan’s Minions free run of your body………day after day, week after week, year after year, by drinking. Be it Wine here & there, maybe a Cider in the summer, a Grey-Hound when watching ones weight, & even a good old Martini when at the Boss’s Christmas party. NEVER DRUNK ! NEVER MISSING WORK ! NEVER FIGHTING WITH FAMILY ! basically never anything unorthodox at all !!!! A shining example of a good Parent/Worker/Husband/Wife etc etc. (Do you get my picture here?) Then suddenly, unexpectedly at a FULL BLOWN PACE it hits you, and NOTHING well ever be the same again! Ones entire life is uprooted permanently, & no fear of ever drinking again, that’s for sure ! But having said that, you also develop a bitter hatred of the stuff, regardless of the fact that it wasn’t forced upon you at gun point, just that you’ve finally realized WHY IT WAS ILLEGAL FOR ALL THOSE YEARS !!!!!!!!!
And in one’s heart, you’re wondering who in Hell’s Half Acre, legallized it……….
Gee…………..what was his name now???????………..oh ya…………..SATAN !!!!!!!!
August 12, 2008 at 12:23 am
waderog
Sheila, I appreciate your comment. Good stuff. If you re-read point number 1 you will see that I mentioned that the Bible does not condemn drinking in moderation, but it does condemn drunkenness. The Bible also talks about not abusing our Christian freedom to cause another brother or sister to stumble. We must be very conscentious of how we exercise our freedom and there is a big difference between freedom and license. What I am fighting against is swinging to the complete other extreme: legalism. As believers we must be freedom fighters! (Gal. 5:1)
August 12, 2008 at 11:34 pm
rustyfly
I’m going to challenge you a little bit. I am not going to say you’re wrong about the alcohol itself, I agree there, but I’m wanting to throw this at you for some thought. In the Bible there is something called the Nazarite vow. It is not necessary and doesn’t mean someone is more holy than another, it is just another way of going along this journey called Christianity. Maybe this way we have chosen as a community is our way of doing things. And who knows, maybe we will change it later (and maybe you will be that voice of change that sends us toward that goal). I completely agree however that we should ditch the whole “no alcohol makes me holy”. Plenty of people sin without alcohol, even Wesleyans.
As far as community members, we need to make ourselves creative in creating community. We need to include them in as much as we can. They may not think like the covenant member, but they are just as much a part of this community as us. That’s my 2 cents worth.
Anyways, I just wanted to throw some food for thought at you. Hope God is giving you all His grace and peace. Later, bud.
August 12, 2008 at 11:35 pm
rustyfly
btw, I meant to say that the Nazarite vow was in Judaism. Not Christianity. Oops.
August 26, 2008 at 6:28 am
Bononymous
Like 99% of folks in the sidebar debate within the Wesleyan church, you are mistaken to say that abstinence from alcohol is not Biblical.
1) rustyfly is onto something when he points to the Nazarite vow as Biblical account of an appropriate and commendable connection between spirituality (by that I mean walking more closely with God) and abstinence from alcohol. Of course, the Nazarite vow was options (although last time I checked so was being Wesleyan).
2) Leviticus 10:9. While we might parse what is meant by an Old Testament passage like this and how it could be applied today, one cannot say that abstinence is not Biblical. Here it is, from God’s own lips–well Moses’ lips–but you get my drift. God saying you must abstain from alcohol to enter my presence. To do so in the context of the tabernacle was death. You might accuse the Wesleyan Church of being too Old Testament in its view of alcohol or of extending the notion of when we are in God’s presence such that we should have our wits about us, but you cannot surely say that the stand against alcohol is non-Biblical. 1 Peter says the church is a royal priesthood. 1 Thess. says we are to pray without ceasing. 1 Corinth. says our bodies are the temple of God. Rev. 5 and 8 equate burning incense before God as prayers of the saints.
Are you following this? This isn’t some kind of invitation to a Reformed proof-text match. I don’t care if Paul thinks a little wine might be good for my tummy. The scope of scripture is overwhelmingly negative toward alcohol. Abstinence is in there. Being set apart for service is in there. Being Holy is in there. The Wesleyan Church can demand total abstinence from its pastors and covenant members and feel completely comfortable that such a requirement is just as Biblical as gathering for worship on Sundays…oops…sorry bad example…that’s not in there…let’s try foot washing…well Wesleyans don’t really do it, but if they did, it would be very Biblical!
June 25, 2009 at 1:59 pm
prward
If Abstinence is the “overwhelming” view of Scripture then why did GOD make it the second element in His HOLY sacrament of communion. It’s a little hard to abstain when you have to take it as often as you gather. That actually sounds like drinking alcohol on some kind of regular basis to me.
September 17, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Diary of a Young Pastor » Blog Archive » The Great Debate (Perry Noble on Alcohol)
[...] sermon, and the recent changes to our membership guidelines in the Wesleyan Church, caused great discussion in the Wesleyan blogosphere. [...]
October 21, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Rick
Please don’t foget that Jesus did not condemn alcohol.
We see no place in Scripture where He took a Nazarite vow. Although we do see that John the Baptist was consecrated as a Nazarite.
I would think that if Jesus turned water to wine He may have had a glass along with His disciples.
We read in Luke that John the Baptist did not eat bread nor drink wine and he was accused of having a demon. Then the “Son of Man” came eating and drinking and He is accused of being a glutton and a drunkard and one who hangs out with sinners.
Also note that it was wine that was in the cup at the Last Supper, a tradition of Passover.
Some may argue that Jesus refused the sponge soaked with wine when He hung on the cross because it was wine but some commentators believe that the wine was the medium for a drug that would have eased his pain somewhat and I believe that is why He refused it. Jesus wanted to fully enter into the work of salvation without His body being drugged.
In Romans Paul said to avoid meat and wine if it causes your brother to stumble. Should we become vegetarians as well as teetotalers because of this statement. Paul wrote that is should be a decision between man and God.
In Ephesians Paul writes to not “get drunk on wine” which implies wine in moderation is okay as long as we do not let it control us and get us out of control.
Paul wrote in 1 Timothy about the requirements for elders and deacons and states that they should not indulge in “much wine.” This is not a call to abstinence but to moderation.
Finally Paul wrote to Timothy and advised him to drink some wine with his meal because of his stomach and other ailments.
References:
Matthew 27:34,48 and Mark 15:23,36 – Wine at the crucifixion
Luke 1:15 – John the Baptist
Luke 7:33,34 – John the Baptist did not drink but Jesus did
Romans 14:21 avoid meat and wine
Ephesians 5:18 – do not get drunk on wine
1 Timothy 3:8 – deacons should not drink much wine (see also Titus 2:3
1 Timothy 5:23 – Timothy should drink wine instead of just water
May 8, 2009 at 11:10 pm
deborahgilbert42
Hi I just found your blog and read this post about drinking. I am studying to be a pastor at Bethany Bible College and I just want to say that I am appalled that as a Wesleyan Pastor you would publicly bash what your denomination believes. How do you expect people to go to your church and take out membership when you yourself do not agree with what it stands for? My suggestion to you is to change churches and find one that you actually agree with.
Oh and just because John Wesley drank doesn’t mean we should. Jesus drank a drink that was 2/3 water and 1/3 wine. You should pick up last months edition of the Wesleyan Magazine Life and read the article on “Why Jesus Drank and I don’t”.
May 9, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Denn Guptill
Good thoughts, of course when the next time the Liberal Party takes power in Canada Marijuana will be decriminalized and on this side of the border we’ll be able to write
5 reasons why The Wesleyan Church is wrong on Marijuana
1. It’s not biblical.
No where does the bible teach that smoking marijuana is wrong. If Jesus does not require abstinence from marijuana for membership in the body of Christ, how can we require it for membership in the church?
2. It breeds hypocrisy.
Yes, marijuana can be very damaging to the body, but so can buffet tables. How many Christians suffer from heart disease because of bad diets and lack of exercise? How many teeth are rotting out of people’s mouths because of too much sweet tea at church dinners?
3. It fosters an attitude of judgmentalism.
If we see someone either purchasing marijuana or smoking marijuana , what do we immediately think? “They need Jesus.” If anyone has anything to do with marijuana, we immediately think they are on thier way to hell.
4. It destroys authenticity.
Let’s be honest Wesleyan pastors, how many of your Covenant members actually do smoke marijuana? If you don’t think any of them do, you probably also believe that every one of your members tithe, and none of them cheat on their taxes. However, I don’t really blame those who drink and accept covenant membership because…
5. It creates a social tier system within God’s family.
We have two kinds of members in the Wesleyan Church: Covenant Members and lepers, er… I mean Community Members. You see, community members aren’t “real” members, are they? “We are all one in Christ Jesus…”, but we are not all one in the Wesleyan Church.
Not condoning marijuana, just thinking.
May 11, 2009 at 6:50 pm
Scott
Wow, Wade! Sorry you had an opinion.
July 7, 2009 at 10:58 pm
Warrior From Pennsylvania
I remember a true story of a conscientious holiness lady who would not leave in sight dark colored soda bottles, because she guarded her testimony around her neighborhood. This is not bad and is remarkable that she wanted to present herself as a child of God.
Apparently in the Corinthian Church one of the Elders officiated at Communion Service where, at least, someone got drunk. My friends you don’t get drunk on unfermented wine/grape juice
[I Corinthians 11:21]. Scripture records that the Apostle Paul condemned this sin and depending on the degree of the Lord’s judgment, He chastises/disciplines Christians at three different levels: ‘ . . . weakness, sickness or death (sleep’). [I Corinthians 11:32]. Someone in their congregation had sinned to the point where the Lord took that one prematurely to Heaven, because he or she was a poor example of the Christian life. Our Lord never glazes over our sins as the people of God.
To say it clearly, chastisement happens to all Christians, so we will not end up in Hell with unbelievers, meaning the unsaved
[I Corinthians 11:32]. ‘Sleep’ always speaks of a Christian’s death as the word shows up in the case of Lazarus [John 11:11; Job 7:21; I Corinthians 15:51b; I Thess. 4:14-15; Matt. 9:24; Mark 5:39; Luke 8:52]. This mean the drunken communicant at the Lord’s Table may have died and went to Heaven; at least someone did pass on to the future life.
The N.T. pastor/bishop is allowed the freedom to use wine, but never in excess, unless he or she views them self as a Nazarite. No one is forcing pastors to bring wine into their house, but neither should a congregation lay down the law against their freedom in doing this.
I have a personal conviction I was taught as a child. Never place anything on the Bible like a magazine for example, but I do not ask other people to do what I do. This leads to legalism.
As to drinking wine, we all as Christians are responsible to Him. If you become an alcoholic it is a result of your lack of self-discipline; you have used your free will in a wrong way. You are still responsible to the Lord God.
July 13, 2009 at 6:06 pm
B.C.
Amen.
August 14, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Outthedoor
Waderog, Thank you so much being willing to approach this topic as responsibly as you have. I had to laugh when I read the comment from the Bethany student regarding “taking out membership”. This terminology in itself creates an exclusiveness within the ‘church’ that no unreached person is going to want to be a part of. How can this not be so obvious?
I did not grow up in the church (much less the Wesleyan Church). Alcohol was always in my house, but never abused. When I reached my college years, many of my friends who had grown up in strict, no-alcohol homes, went the opposite direction, spending their nights in a drunken stupor. I witnessed my mother and father handle alcohol responsibly all my life, and had no desire or interest in abusing it the way I witnessed those years.
I have been involved in leadership within the Wesleyan Church for several years now (yes, even within HQ), and will soon be stepping out of this particular denomination, partially because of it’s unwillingness to soften it’s stance on this lifestyle choice. My hopes that the Wesleyan Church would come to a place of less defensiveness in this argument are gone. I’m not angry, simply tired of waiting – while watching so many lost people around me struggling with life issues that actually matter.
The way I look at it, if this is the stance the Wesleyan Church wants to take, I have no problem letting them do so. It simply won’t include me. If an individual chooses to abstain, more power to them. It’s when personal convictions become written law, applied to others, that legalism is born – specifically when the rules are not drawn from the essential truths of the gospel, but rather from an individual’s interpretation of a non-essential lifestyle choice.
So I say, farewell. More power to ya. Keep fighting. I’m gone.